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Posted by Byron Katie on December 14, 2006 8:41 AM
Well those were some really fancy words I must say... I personally think they convey the reasoning of a person who is out of touch with his or her inner feelings, sorry, but I've been in the spiritual realm long enough not to recognize such wording.
However, getting down to IT - jealousy - I got lots of help from the people on the hotline to go through these feelings of jealousy and what I came to the conclusion about was, that regardless of what my "connaisance" would do or not, I would still love her, and with that reassurance I got help from the Work to stay more in the present and greet whatever would come up. Now, in reality after my celibacy period I have had to face some surprises with her, which were not always of a pleasant nature, however those have somehow helped us come closer, because I dared face my fears... However this was done passing through the valley of death with my inner child, anger and so forth, maybe not in a true Workonian spirit. Yet The Work as such helped me go through Hell during this time and thanx especially to Liesel, Jörg and Madhu at the hotline, without their help it would have been tough.
Now what about jealousy - yes I still "suffer" from IT, but I am willing to face it now and use it as a working tool for growth and continous reevaluation of my thoughts and feelings. That said I hope I will not have to face those feelings again, something I wouldn't have said beeing faithful to No. 6 on the JYN-worksheet - hep, I'm not there yet...
p.s. the more transparent you get in a relationship, the closer you can get to each other, but it's scary, but with that transparency I believe that jealousy can gradually be overcome and worked out...
Still, somethings are maybe best never said since they only kill and don't heal or contribute to a relationship...
Adam Skinner |
May 16, 2007 1:47 PM
May 16, 2007 13:47
You need to stop reacting with upset to your partner's absence -- is that true?
...I invite you to extend mercy to yourself. (ditto for myself.) Maybe you are addicted to the experience (conditioned reactions?) you give yourself when you are with her or thinking about her...
I myself have spent a great deal of energy fretting about this kind of thing. Can't say I'm over the hump either. It's all vaguely clustered around the idea I developed that a) I'm a co-dependent freak and b) I'd be existentially annhilated if I ever had to change romantic relationships. But in truth, ***I change to new ones every day!!!*** Every day that I see my partner's great face is completely different than the last, and *necessarily* entails different relating. (this could be anywhere from a smidgen of difference to a paradigm's worth of difference)
[ What I recently found, however, was that I actually have had for a long time a raging urge toward INDEPENDENCE, and co-dependence is just some sort of weird upside down compensating I do, probably to mask this fact. :-o. mysterious ironic world. ]
Tomorrow is another day. I used to think this was just something Scarlett O'Hara said. Howthehellever, it's now starting to dawn on me what that truly means. Every day IS in point of fact a brand new day, with a brand new person. Feel the power (you command) in that.
and, to go really far afield and play with linear and cyclical time, if there's even a possibility in the universe that each of us is able to finally be 'over' this, -- then hasn't it ALREADY occurred? And aren't we fine?
N. Taylor |
April 17, 2007 3:01 PM
April 17, 2007 15:01
Wow. Jealousy, fear of losing our mate, fear of losing 'beauty capital'....those are biggies for many of us.
The Work is new to me. I just came across the site today and have spent several hours watching all the video clips, and this one really resonated. I feel for that woman and I love her honesty, the way she wrestles with the power of her feelings. I can imagine the different stories she might create for her situation. And I am happy to read that she now sees herself "in a secret love affair with herself". Beautiful!
Thank you Katie for this work, and for helping us to see the beauty and possibilities in our lives.
April 14, 2007 12:24 PM
April 14, 2007 12:24
Puuh, I'm right there and with my girlfriend we've been on both sides. Now I am in celibacy and prision without her - a two month period of self exploration to see if I can manage without her and dating other women. It is tough and I am beeing eaten to the core by the thought of her abandoning med and being with other men... I am working at it daily in the Work, yet still it is eating me at ther core - am I addicted to her?
Adam Skinner |
April 8, 2007 6:29 AM
April 8, 2007 06:29
Brian, Liz, Jon,
The question about staying with a partner if he/she is unfaithful...whether it be sexually or otherwise...we are free to leave in peace for ourselves, if that's what we want. It's about the story we hold for our relationship: this isn't supposed to happen, etc..we are in a good relationship--and so on. But if my story changes due to an "act" of unfaithfulness (according to my religion, as Bk says.)Then it's up to me to do the Work and leave or stay in my own peace.
April 4, 2007 1:39 PM
April 4, 2007 13:39
The first thing that occurs to me to say, is I understand what you're describing with seeing the images and feeling those feelings, I go through this too, what feels like pretty frequently (for me), and it quite really sucks. Such episdoes interrupt the beautiful flow of my day. I feel* so stupid too, when I position myself against another human being or against another image in this way ~ Part of me knows better, oh so much better!
It's less often now that I feel sorry for myself, but this vanity-jealousy is one of the surefire, old familiar ways I still get to feel sorry for myself in a big way. Still clinging to something.
(and lots of phrases in the lines above I can probably take straight to Inquiry)
Maybe... at root, you just simply admire the physical beauty and creative expression that you see in front of you (and it's not their beauty... it's coming to me to recognize that it's not hers, it's not anything that's owned ~ rather IT comes and goes as it pleases, and can't even be measured... it's simply our prejudice that we even believe that the people around us find her to be a great beauty. Do you know what my partner said not long ago? "I don't get what the big deal is about Marilyn Monroe... eh, I'm not into Angelina Jolie... Pam Anderson is ugly" haha! :D taste... there's absolutely no accounting for it :D )
~ Maybe you just simply admire beauty, and were never shown a proper outlet for that without drifting into pain and confusion. Be merciful/patient with yourself.
Maybe you are simply a great aesthete!
N. Taylor |
April 4, 2007 9:31 AM
April 4, 2007 09:31
I bought the book Loving What Is in when it first came out, I guess around 2002, and packed it away as my marriage and life as I knew it crumbled underneath me. I am in a new relationship, and returned to The Work, because I found myself suffering again for various reasons. What a relief to finally get it now, to know that this is all I need after being a seeker for over 20 years! Interestingly, it was reading Stephen Mitchell's translation of the Tao 20 years ago that got me started on my path! I am so happy to have The Work for breakfast, lunch, dinner, and snacks in between. I liked to see this video inquiry on jealousy, as it is one of my biggest mental bondage issues. I would like to see more, and am thinking about buying the DVD on Jealousy and Resentment. Another huge issue I have is with aging and losing "beauty capital." I find myself angry (jealous, ie., fearful) when I see sex (images of gorgeous young women everywhere I - and my b/f - look) in advertising or entertainment. These are issues I really could use as much insight on as possible. Any words are gratefully welcome.
April 3, 2007 9:44 AM
April 3, 2007 09:44
Here's a passage from "A Thousand Names for Joy" that may help you:
Your partner is your mirror. Except for the way you perceive him, he doesn’t even exist for you. He is who you see he is, and ultimately it’s just you again, thinking. It’s just you, over and over and over, and in this way you remain blind to yourself and feel justified and lost.
To think that your partner is anything but a mirror of you is painful. So when you see him as flawed in any way, you can be sure that that’s where your own flaw is. The flaw has to be in your thinking, because you’re the one projecting it. You are always what you judge us to be in the moment. There’s no exception. You are your own suffering; you are your own happiness.
There’s no way to truly join your partner except by getting free of your belief that you need something from him that he’s not giving. Nothing can cost you someone you love. There’s nothing your husband can possibly do to keep you from loving him. The only way you can lose him is by believing what you think. You’re one with your husband until you believe that he should look a certain way, he should give you something, he should be something other than what he is. That’s how you divorce him. Right then and there, you have lost your marriage.
If my husband were to have an affair and that were not okay with me, I would say, “Sweetheart, I understand that you’re having an affair, and I notice that when you do that, something inside me tends to move away from you. I don’t know what that is, I only know that it’s so; it mirrors your movement away from me, and I want you to know that.”
And then if he were to continue his affair, to prefer to spend his time with another woman, I might notice that I was moving away, but I wouldn’t have to leave him in anger. There is nothing I can do to stay with him, and there is nothing I can do to divorce him. I’m not running this show. I might stay with him, or I might divorce him in a state of total love, and think, This is fascinating; we promised we would be together always, and I’m divorcing him now, and I would probably laugh, love that he has what he wants, and move on, because there is no war in me.
And someone else would divorce her husband thinking, “He shouldn’t have had the affair,” “He hurt me,” “He doesn’t deserve me,” “He broke his promises,” “He’s heartless.”
Either way, the movement is the same; the only difference is the story. You’re going to make the trip either way. The question is, Are you going to go kicking and screaming, or are you going to go with dignity, generosity, and peace? You can’t dictate this, you can’t fake it, you can’t make yourself be spiritual or loving.
Just be honest and question your thinking. Then, eventually, when people say, “Oh, it’s a terrible thing, this divorce,” you might respond, “I understand how you see it that way, and that’s not my experience at all.”
Byron Katie |
February 17, 2007 9:26 PM
February 17, 2007 21:26
i feel confused about staying and doing the work and leaving. if a partner is sexually unfaithful and having an affair, is there really a place to say, i wasn't betrayed, he didn't do anything wrong, he can have both of us. what about monogamy and vows and all the rest???
February 15, 2007 10:02 AM
February 15, 2007 10:02
I've only just seen your posting - as you say, it is personal and only you will know your answers to your questions.
However, I make an assumption that you are married and with your partner at this point and if that is the case, two questions that came to me here are:
Can I stay and practice the work?
Can I be married and be forgiving?
If the answer to either if these is 'No' you might want to look at the reasons for the 'No' - e.g. "I can't stay and practice the work because........" - then look inquire into those reasons in turn.
If the assumptions are not true, then all of this may be redundant - and they may be redundant anyway :-)
I hope this is useful,
Jon Willis |
January 27, 2007 10:00 AM
January 27, 2007 10:00
Yeah, I think you can do anything in your life, leave your partner, stay with one who is seeing other people, etc, it just matters whether you blame them or not. If you realise you need to leave for your own sake, they're not in the wrong, it's just wrong for you, as far as you can tell.
And as BK says, when you really enquire, there's nothing to forgive.
Susie F |
January 25, 2007 10:41 PM
January 25, 2007 22:41
Hi Brian, Liz,Betty and Jon
THis is a question I have had for a long time and I am having trouble putting myself outside my particular situation. My ever plaqueing thought/question is can I leave and still be praticing the work? Can I not be married and still be forgiving? I know it is personal but I will be welcome to any personal opinions that you want to share to help me see a different way of thinking!
January 17, 2007 10:10 AM
January 17, 2007 10:10
Brian, Liz and John,
A partner reflects our own insecurities as well as our strengths--a mirror in other words. So a stranger could fit the bill either way. However, building intimacy requires time--at least for me it does. And, I guess that's where the Work lies for me. I like my stories about my partner--they are all kind and loving, and I'm attached to that. The day when my partner tells me that it's no longer good to be with me--or decides someone else is better, I will have to reckon with my devastation at having a large piece of my life gone. Yet, like Katie says, "you've been spared." What kind of feeling would that be, I wonder?
December 30, 2006 10:00 AM
December 30, 2006 10:00
Hi Liz and Jon....I've heard Katie say that there are two ways to leave someone "in anger/fear, or in peace". I guess the thing here is that if we question our thoughts and realise that we don't NEED our partners to be a particular way in order for us to be OK, we can then be clear about what it is WE want in our lives. And that may be to not be with that partner anymore.
Having said that, Katie has also said - in her "Byron Katie On Love, Sex, and Relationships" book - that with a clear mind, it would be possible to marry a stranger and be happy!
December 23, 2006 11:46 AM
December 23, 2006 11:46
I've been thinking about your question and for me, yes, it seems possible - just depends on the motive underneath.
If it is coming from fear, jealousy, etc, then for me it would still seem to come from stories.
If it is from a place of love - 'I love that you want that and I'm happy for you to have that' then that has a very different feel to it.
Even then, for me, it would be about truly choosing to be with herself, as opposed to NOT being with him.
Jon Willis |
December 19, 2006 6:51 AM
December 19, 2006 06:51
Is it possible that she could choose not to be with someone who had intimate friendships with all of his ex girlfriends?
December 16, 2006 2:01 PM
December 16, 2006 14:01
Wow - Katie and this lady upped the pace in this video :-)
Video Transcript - Jealousy
BK: What I've learnt is that as I question my mind, give up happens. It's not something I have to do. It just kind of falls away once the truth is seen.
BK: So what does emotional intimacy mean to him?
IN [Inquirer, Inquiree?]: I don't know what it looks like to him, but what it looks like to me is that he's, he has thoughts about her, maybe he wishes that I were more like her in certain ways, maybe he, erm.
BK: Do you love him?
BK: And if that's what he wants?
IN: No, I don't want him to have that.
BK: OK, so that's not love.
IN: I don't care, I don't care.
BK: Exactly. That's honest - 'So sweetheart I don't really love you and I only want you to want what I want you to want.'
IN: But what is love anyway, I mean we are all just here serving ourselves.
BK: Personalities don't love, they want something. So you're this very honest person, just are you honest with him - 'Sweetheart I do not ever want you to have a life without checking in with me.'
IN: That's basically it.
BK: 'And by the way, you know everything you think? Check in with me first. And if you think you can do that we are going to have a really happy life together.'
BK: Are you happy when he's happy?
BK: Isn't that what you want?
IN: But not when he's happy with something that I'm not happy with.
BK: Yeah, just as long as you let him know that, it's a beginning.
BK: So when he says 'Do you love me? Do you really care about me?' you can say 'No, not at all'.
IN: Is that what love is, that I want him to do things that hurt me?
BK: Well, ask you.
IN: I don't think that's what love is.
BK: So sweetheart, what I can tell you is my husband can't do anything that hurts me yet - and I'm open.
IN: Wait, can you say that again?
BK: When he, when he loves someone I support it, because I love him.
IN: When his attention is going to that person?
BK: Absolutely, I'm spared. He's happy and I don't have to be a part of it - I'm free and he's happy.
IN: I'm not there....
BK: Not there yet, not there that you realize. You want his attention, why? What does that give you?
IN: Fulfillment, joy
BK: A sense of security?
IN: Security, pleasure too.
BK: Oh yeah, there's nothing greater than 'I love you, I love you, I love you', yeah.
BK: Isn't that where you feel the most peace - when you are happy for him?
BK: When you are happy for him, happy is happy, you are feeling happy.
IN: Yeah, but not with, when, you know it's different when, if he's eating a great meal and he's really happy or he does, you know, he makes a great accomplishment at work and he's happy, it's a different feel of happy.
BK: So, who would you be - see if you can hear the question - who would you be if it were not possible to believe that he was not faithful when he was with her.
IN: I would be, it would be really sweet.
BK: OK, so here's what we are learning from you - those of us really listening - with the thought you attack him, without the thought the opposite, so how can he be your problem?
BK: With the thought, believing that thought, you attack. When you don't believe the thought you don't attack, in fact the opposite.
IN: I think what I'm feeling is that the thought, I can't, the thought protects me against what might happen.
BK: So when you are attacking him are you protected?
BK: Everything you are afraid is going to happen you are bringing on.
BK: The worst that can happen you are living.
BK: [to audience] How can anyone outside of you be your problem? Not possible. If you think someone is hurting you, you are quite insane - you are believing your thoughts. And that's OK, just know that that belief is what's hurting you, not that person.
BK: When we look at how we treat them it's really nice to know they have somewhere to go.
IN: Yeah it is.
BK: It's like she's taking care of him when I am mentally ill.
BK: And it's amazing, he keeps coming home to you. You attack him and he keeps coming home to you. She's very nice to him and he keeps coming home to you.
BK: It's like when you love him, you love you for loving him. When you don't like him, you don't like you for not liking him.
BK: Because he is your PROJECTED - and you are the PROJECTOR. He is only who you believe him to be - and until you question your mind you live with the enemy - and it gets very confusing because you love him.
IN: I need my boyfriend to see that I am enough.
BK: He doesn't see that you are enough - is that true?
IN: He goes, I mean he has other, you know, other women friends that are, you know, that he's intimate with, not sexually, but emotionally and to me that's the same, it's like where do you draw the line, you know?
BK: He sounds like a well-adjusted human being.
IN: He is.
BK: Is that true - you want him to give up his whole world and just focus on you?
IN: No, it's not true.
BK: So just sit with that. You know, you are getting to know you. You are the one that does not want him to give up his friends.
IN: But then where's there's situations where it's really threatening I do want that, I do want him to step out of those scenarios.
BK: It goes like this - the way he lives is OK for you - the reason that I know it is OK for you is that you stay.
IN: I am needy
BK: [to audience] Can you find it? Where are you needy? Where are you so needy that you would try to pull another off their path for your convenience?
BK: 'You know, I don't care about your path, I don't care about you, I don't care about what you want - focus HERE ON ME - yeah, yeah, yeah I love you - FOCUS HERE - I am needy.'
IN: I'd be in the same place that I've been in again and again and again in my adult life and I'd be at the end of my rope emotionally.
BK: Isn't that where you are when you are thinking like this, even with him?
BK: So, the worst that can happen you are already living. So if she wins you are just left with you again - which is what you've got when you are with him.
IN: If she wins, I can't let that happen.
BK: Well you know, there's a way of looking at that - when he's with her, think of how intimate he will want to be with you.
IN: [laughing] Yeah
BK: I mean, that's your story about him. Look what she's getting, she's getting the man who wants to be with friends with all of his old relationships.
BK: Close your eyes - see if you can get a picture of the two of them together.
IN: Katie, I want to bash that [the flowers and vase] against the wall when you say that.
BK: Yeah, so read it again the way you wrote it.
IN: I don't ever want to take second place to a manipulative woman and be tormented by all of my boyfriend's friendships.
BK: So look how often in your mind you take a second place position - over and over and over.
BK: So, when we say I'm willing to, it could happen again in our minds, and because we are willing to we are open to sitting down and finding our way.
Jon Willis |
December 15, 2006 2:07 AM
December 15, 2006 02:07
It would be wonderful if the rest of this particular video could be posted. As the session progresses, the young woman realises that she *is* able to look at the image of her boyfriend and his female friend together, and is open to experiencing this again. The DVD of this session, previously for sale on www.TheWork.com ends with a letter from the young woman, stating that since her session with Katie, she has been able to meet these thoughts, which previously tormented her, with understanding - and that she sees ALL her boyfriend's friendships as just other ways that the world can bring him love. And, best of all, she reveals that since doing The Work, she feels like she has been in "a secret love affair with herself". Beautiful.
December 14, 2006 3:52 PM
December 14, 2006 15:52
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This page contains a single entry from the blog posted on December 14, 2006 8:41 AM.
The previous post in this blog was Letter: Doing The Work with Children.
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